Naaleh

General Category => Women => Topic started by: barbara1 on February 20, 2008, 02:23:23 AM



Title: Meaning of Trust class 2: Who is the Provider?
Post by: barbara1 on February 20, 2008, 02:23:23 AM
Would taking out loans to buy real estate show that a person does not trust that what they have right now is exactly what they need?   On the other hand, if Hashem gives you what He thinks you need (materially), then if He makes it possible for you to get the loans from the bank and buy the real estate, He must feel you need it, no?


Title: Re: Meaning of Trust class 2: Who is the Provider?
Post by: Lyndsay on February 21, 2008, 11:29:33 AM
Hashem is the one that provides the opportunity to get the loan.  Part of man's free will and the hishtadlut that we do is to push beyond the limits and move to the next level no matter what that is (learning, working, building deeper relationships, etc.).  Hashem provides what we need but we are still required to work for it.  If a person applies for a loan and is rejected then that also says something - that maybe it isn't the right time and that Hashem doesn't feel you need it at this point.  Since it's in people's nature to constantly want more, when they put in their hishtadlut and Hashem provides the avenue, then it is part of what Hashem is providing for the person.


Would taking out loans to buy real estate show that a person does not trust that what they have right now is exactly what they need?   On the other hand, if Hashem gives you what He thinks you need (materially), then if He makes it possible for you to get the loans from the bank and buy the real estate, He must feel you need it, no?


Title: Re: Meaning of Trust class 2: Who is the Provider?
Post by: Hadassa1 on February 21, 2008, 10:48:05 PM
Why are you buying real estate? Investment? Is it realistic to return the loan in the foreseeable future? There are several other questions/factors that affect this situation. But, all things being equal, I say that if Hashem gives you what you need and He makes it possible for you to get the loans, and it's a responsible decision- go for it!


Title: Re: Meaning of Trust class 2: Who is the Provider?
Post by: melinda on February 26, 2008, 02:38:58 AM
I felt that the most valuable information in this class was the question of balance between trying ones best to make a living and also trusting in hashem for all that we receive in response to our efforts.
It seems that there is always a battle in the working world for allowing one to take responsibility of one's livelihood by trying and also allowing faith to be the answer when frustration and lack of financial reward is overwhelming and disappointing. As far as com[aring my husband's best with someone Else's best efforts this is an amazing insight to a lack of faith and loss of focus on a provider that I had never connected with until this class. Thanks Rebettzin! Can someone please list the pages of the orchot tzaddikim that are referenced as source material in this class so i can review in English,...especially regarding parnossha?
Thanks


Title: Re: Meaning of Trust class 2: Who is the Provider?
Post by: Tzippy2 on February 26, 2008, 04:47:56 AM
In the basic Hebrew Orchot Tzaddikim, I think Rebbetzin Heller referenced selections from Shaar HaSimcha (The  Gate of Joy)  pgs. 88, and then pgs. 93-98.  Which English edition are you working with?


Title: Re: Meaning of Trust class 2: Who is the Provider?
Post by: miriam4 on February 27, 2008, 07:36:11 PM
If taking out a loan to invest in real estate is considered normal efforts for parnassa in a particular time and place (as it is here and now!) then it's appropriate hishtadlus for parnassa.