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Author Topic: Class 17: Final Halachot of Havdalah  (Read 192 times)
Marsha1
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« on: July 29, 2008, 10:36:56 PM »

This class covered a lot of ground and much of it was new to me.

I found it interesting that the place for Havdalah in prayer is in the bracha of "Atah Chonen L'Adam Da'at" in Shmoneh Esrai and that one way of understanding that is that we need our intellect to make Havdalah and that we need to make Havdalah before making requests of Hashem because we do not make requests on Shabbat, ie. Shabbat must be officially over for us before we can make requests.  For me, this makes sense and will make it easier for me to remember the addition of "Atah Chonantanu" (ie. Havdalah in prayer) in Shmoneh Esrai.

I've always wondered when is the latest time to start and finish Seudah Shli$#!@; I have often rushed up finishing eating while it is still Shabbat. Now I know that, as long as I have a bread meal for Seudah Shli$#!@, I can continue the meal into nightfall and bentsch after, as if it's still Shabbat, in a sense, extending Shabbat.  I'm still not entirely clear on the latest time to start, 30 minutes before shekiah/tzait, because I don't usually know these exact times and different people wait a different amount of time after candle-lighting time before declaring it's time for Havdalah.

I liked the idea of not starting certain Melachot that are likely to make you forget Havdalah, thus effectively dividing the melachot into 2 different categories in this regard.  There is no doubt in my mind that starting to sew, weave, write an essay, etc. can be very intensive and may lead one to forget to say Havdalah!

I also found the discussion of sitting or standing for Havdalah interesting, similar to the discussion for Kiddush.  It never occurred to me that not only can we sit for Havdalah but that it could even be preferable!

I've also wondered about hearing Havdalah by phone.  I've seen people do it for elderly relatives.  It's good to know it's okay in extenuating circumstances (sick, elderly) but that it should not be done as a rule.

I've also often wondered about what to do with the wine when the other brachot are being said.  I had no idea that the wine should still be held in the left hand when saying the bracha on besamim.  What about someone who needs to hold a bentscher in order to say Havdalah and, worse yet, what if the page needs to be turned, (as it does in most bentschers I have)? Is it more important to hold the wine in the left hand and therefore to find another way to hold the bentscher?  Also, what if the candle does not have a holder and needs to be held throughout the duration of Havdalah (and there is not another person to hold it)? How important is it to hold the wine throughout?  It gets a bit confusing to have to keep changing hands for candle, besamim, wine, and bentscher!

I also had no idea that the bracha on besamim should not be said if you can't smell (eg. if you have a cold); this sounds like quite a serious mistake if it could invalidate the whole Havdalah!  I also didn't know that there are so many besamim brachot.  If we don't know them all and don't have true spices, can we say it on an orange or a fragrant flower?

For me, this class called my attention to many aspects of Havdalah that I didn't know and had not even considered but left me with many more questions for which I will need to seek answers!


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Rabbi Isaacson
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 05:36:31 PM »

I just wanted to respond to a few of the questions raised in this post.  The holding of the besamim, fire, wine etc. is all in the ideal (lechatchila) situation.  Certinaly, if one needs to hold a bentcher in order to recite havdala (or to have proper kavana), that would override the lechatchila details of what to hold.
Making a bracha on the besamim when one cannot smell would not invalidate the entire havdala -- it would only invalidate the bracha on besamim.

Alternative natural fragrances, such as aromatic leaves, etc., can be used for besamim if one does not have true spices.

R. Shimon Isaacson
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